I think we were having trouble wrapping it up because usually you can end on a sum up, "THIS IS COMPLETE GARBAGE I WANT MY TWO HOURS BACK" or you can go, "YEAH! THAT WAS AWESOME!" But with this you are like... well... uh...

Appreciate the feedback!

I'm glad you felt the nostalgia I did with the Darkwing podcast, it was a really weird, wistful summer day. I have no idea what Flight of the Dragons is. I don't remember that at all?

We've been planning Orguss. I have the entire series on HK bootreg DVD in addition to several US Renditions tapes from back in the day, but it's coming out here soon (although it keeps getting delayed) and so I've been waiting for that. Trying to time it and all, plus I wanted to be able to comment on the quality of Imaginasian's release. Believe me, if it's available in some form of English and it's Ishiguro Noboru, it's on my list to review.

As for Orguss 02, it has veeeeery little to do with the original Orguss, but I actually kind of like it. It's a weird, funky little OVA.

-Jeremy

Note: Please do not edit my posts for me. I am perfectly capable of doing it myself. A simple message asking me to change something would be great.

Jeremy: Well, I don't have any strong opinions about Orguss 02, either way. I'm just glad to know you're planning to talk about the original series eventually.

As for the FoD movie I mentioned...maybe you didn't see it, and it's probably cheesy enough by modern standards (haven't had the chance to directly look back), but I think it was still better than the average cartoon at the time.

-wielder

The Macross and the underwater city come from the Protoculture. Even DYRL makes it pretty explicit that the city was a Protoculture city. And like we said in some way the Marduk fit the concept of the Supervision Army as mentioned in the TV series as a race that controlled Zentradi in order to fight rogue Zentradi. The Protodelvin's Varuta forces are basically the same thing too.

And the human aligned Zentradi in Macross 2 are pretty clear about the Minmay defense. That one Zentradi on the random TV saw it as CULTURE BANZAI! and also a way to "expose our brothers to culture!" More than likely the main thrust of the Minmay Defense is to pacify attacking Zentradi through CULTURE SHOCK rather than utterly destroying them. The fact that the UN Spacy in Macross 2 seemed unprepared for an enemy that would keep fighting after the Minmay defense seems to indicate an overall strategy of placate and capture.

Also I thought Ishtar was really moe, but Jeremy is very moe ignorant and wouldn't have any of that in his Macross 2 podcast =)

-Andrew

Ishtar is definitely super naive, possibly borderline retarded. I do not disagree at all. However, I think Hibiki is a far, far cry from the stable father figure that can rescue a useless, retarded moe girl in need. He's reckless and stupid (just see his behavior aboard the Marduk ships) and a little rabble rousing troublemaker. Remember all the problems he made for UN Spacy? Tabloid journalist thrill-seeker is a pretty far cry from moe daddy. Hell, he is also pretty far removed from the stupid harem anime main character of "useless Japanese guy with no skills or talent".

As for the name Marduk, well, Marduk was a god that, just like Ishtar, appears in various religions over the years, sucking up the positions and attributes of other gods until finally finding his way to top of Babylon's pantheon. But I think what is important to Macross II is that the gods had easy, fun lives at the expense of humans having crappy, hard lives. Humans basically slaved away for Marduk and his crew, kind of like how the Zentradi slaved away for the Marduk in Macross II.

Also keep in mind that Ishtar is basically the most popular fertility goddess in recorded history, appearing in many religions. To quote Guirand in New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology by way of wikipedia, "Ishtar was above all associated with sexuality: her cult involved sacred prostitution; her holy city Erech was called the 'town of the sacred courtesans'; she herself as the 'courtesan of the gods'; and she had many lovers."

While I'm at it, Feff's mecha is called the Gilgamesh and in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Isthar hits on Gilgamesh, but he rejects her, pointing out all the terrible things her former lovers have had to go through. "The fickle goddess treated her passing lovers cruelly, and the unhappy wretches usually paid dearly for the favours heaped on them." Considering the jilted Ishtar tries to kill Gilgamesh, it seems like yet again Japan did not properly understand the non-Japanese mythology they were making reference to. It's weird how Feff/Gilgamesh ends up with Isthar (hell, betrays Ingues and shoots his advisor for her), completely confusing the allusion.

I figured talking about this during the podcast would slow it down and be kind of boring so I didn't go into it.

I agree with Andrew about the Minmay Attack, it was about conversion and not destruction.

Is Flight of Dragons a cartoon movie or what?

Oh yeah, I also made a mistake, the Viz sequel comic is called Macross II: The Micron Conspiracy. Micron Disorder was the name of one of the episodes of Macross II.

-Jeremy

Yes, it's a cartoon movie.

Btw, it's actually on Youtube: http://tinyurl.com/394qos

Ishtar is moe. It doesn't matter if Hibiki is a creepy guy with a father fetish or not, she's still the useless heroine that needs someone to protect her. Mikimoto moe is still moe.

-Andrew